DMC-Central.com
DMC / Half-Life Forum - Gameplay
Tayste - Apr 07, 2008 - 01:04 PM
Post subject: Gameplay
Damnit that topic got closed before I could 2 cent!
" I’ve been on Fireball’s Server and got tag teamed by Brylant and Weed myself. I was soo pissed I couldn’t even talk trash I had to just exit the game."
You didn't have to just exit the game. Especially since you did not know it was against the rules just shady gameplay. I have been tag teamed against and found it very entertaining.
It is simply a case of tactics. We have strategy ('how to')... to stop a tag team your strategy must be complete.. you know 'how to' play DMC long ago... tactics is 'when to'.. the most advanced concept in DMC is 'when to'. If you know 'when to', you know that 2 player in FFA holds no advantages.. just the disadvantage of having less to kill and twice as many deaths to die, theoretically. FFA means FFA and leaving someone alive will only be to your loss.. they'll take your heath, armor, ammo and kills. Getting pissed off and quitting to a team like this, thats just lazy 
(i am sometimes lazy too.)
pinkteam - Apr 08, 2008 - 04:42 AM
Post subject: RE: Gameplay
Deleted
BigBrick wrote:
Further posts by brylant or cutme will be deleted,not that this will bother you two, but it should go a long way to making this forum a better place.
Its enough having llamas on servers without them coming here to troll.
Tayste - Apr 08, 2008 - 04:26 PM
Post subject:
You make me chuckle sometimes, usually you are funny! You made me laugh more than anyone else on this forum i'd say.. I like crazy and weird humor like you.
That post wasn't funny though, it was bland and pointless. . maybe u thought it would be funny but just wasn't? Im dissapointed though =(
Only talk if you gonna be funnny ok.. its your only real purpose here.
grem - Apr 09, 2008 - 12:17 AM
Post subject:
I see what you mean but walking into a game when two capable people are already geared up tag teaming you and patrolling the supplies feels more like disadvantage than advantage. I could be wrong.. Mind if I watch 2v1 in spec?
DrDirk - Apr 09, 2008 - 03:26 AM
Post subject:
DMQ SHAFT IS BS. I HATE IT. THAT IS MY LAST RANT AS I AM OFF TO PHOENIX TO FIND 80' STRETCH TRAILERS. BY.
Minidou_le_cajoline(TM) - Apr 09, 2008 - 01:35 PM
Post subject:
love it or hate it if you want, but the true is that you don't master it. Dmq shaft is better. And every quakers know that weapons are not well balanced in quake, but they are all useful.
milosi - Apr 09, 2008 - 02:57 PM
Post subject:
they balanced better than here, rock sux somehow. i think not the shaft is the problem, i think the rocket is. I use my shaft here even if i have a big ping, not like in qw
Tayste - Apr 09, 2008 - 03:14 PM
Post subject:
Hey Grem I said sometimes I am lazy too.
You can spectate me anytime that you want to.. although I don't see why this would be of interest to you, prove me wrong? I wasn't trying to prove you wrong just saying it wasn't your only choise to quit.
Um, you knew you were at a disadvantage when you joined the server mid map. So you can't say anything about that, when I join a server mid map i KNOW that it is a disadvantage, its got nothing to do with them teaming up.
Their tactics is team. Your tactics to counter should be when to be where, when and where to escape/retreat and when/how to attack. If you know 'when to', you are not at a disadvantage. It is as simple as if your opponent does not know you are thinking about tactics, they lose. Of course you know what their tactics are, you said you found it obvious to notice.. or maybe you only noticed after you lost, so not knowing their tactics simple as that you lose.
Of course it is not fathomable to me to consider tactics until having mastered aim, movement, item and map control (This would put you ahead of brylant and weed anyway..).. because without those, you are wasting valuable mind power on aim, movement, item and map control. They are all crucial to winning, so without them mastered, tactics just make you mess up your game, with them mastered, base the gameplay on tactical moves
I am a bitch today.
The whole subject of 2v1 is an obvious disadvantage to the guy on their own.. I am just saying it is no reason to give up, if you really wanted to play.
It is true though that if you are as a team in FFA only one of you can get the MH.
And what Huntil said is true although I find nailgun to be very near useless.. it really seems to be the most extreme rare case for its use... for example I am on dm2 and I have picked up all the weapons and 100 rockets. I am low hp in the secret RA, so I can't use rocket or ill suicide and ive run out of shotgun ammo.. and the enemy is running back so I cant crowbar him.... and there is no SNG on dm2.... ;D
Finally Milo, nothing wrong with rockets dmq/dmc.. thats either latency/network problem or your imagination running away ^^
grem - Apr 09, 2008 - 06:09 PM
Post subject:
Nope not trying to prove anything just interested in seeing your strategy I guess. 
Tayste - Apr 09, 2008 - 06:42 PM
Post subject:
I am not claiming anything I say as I know it all or whatever, just want to share what I think on the gameplay subject.. as is the topic.
Strategy is how to play DMC.. I split into 4 key areas. If you know how to do this shit or the theory of it, then you know strategy, regardless whether you can consistently perform to it. All 4 are each seperately important and difficult to get down taking most people years.
1. movement (character control advanced example - recovering from being hit by a rocket that send you flying to turn the advantage to your favour.. the most amazing example I ever saw was Griffin on dm2, he was at the spawn location at the bottom of the double health stairs between RL and quad, his opponent in the middle area shoots a rocket at him. Griffin jumps as it explodes and controls himself to land on the RL above)
2. aiming (hit scan and prediction, reaction time)
3. item control (getting items to survive and in order for others to not get items and cycling them by respawn time)
4. map control/knowledge (tracking your opponents position accurately and continuously throughout match including keeping a tracker on their approx armor, hp, weapons etc (most useful to aid with tactics), dominating an area (camping) or intimidating others to keep away from an area of the map)
So that is my strategy in writing. All good DMC players I have played in the last year have gotten this stuff and top QW player don't even consider thinking about any of them. I would say aim, item control and movement can be pretty much indefinately improved (especially movement and aim), but eventually a player comes a time when they kind hit their potential.
You know when this happened when you begin to recognise opponent skill tier in more depth than just 'he is experienced, he is noob'.. because you are really thinking of things other than those 4. You can counter a player just by picking up on their weaknesses based on having once been that player yourself at some point (for me 6 years of playing).. you abuse those weaknesses. When playing equal or higher skilled opponents the only thing that seperates you is tactical choises and luck.
Playing vs 2 at once will make no difference to strategy, it is only tactics that will change, that is what I was trying to say.
I talk BS but tactics is the ability to think beyond the strategy of how to play the game, and instead thinking the game more like chess. Timing is so important in the game, where it is not in chess, but the timing rests in the back of the mind, and instead focus on tactics or 'moves' like in chess, whether it defensive, spammy, agressive, campy, risky, silly, whatever. The ability to do these things is what makes us individuals, mastering those 4 allows us to focus on the tactics.
From Wikipedia
"A strategy is a long term plan of action designed to achieve a particular goal, most often "winning"."
...so, 'how to' play DMC.
"tactics refers to a short sequence of moves which limits the opponent's options and results in tangible gain"
"tactics are the techniques for engaging and defeating an enemy in battle"
...so, 'when to' play the opponent.. usually based on positional and statistical (having better gear) advantage.
I loved to watch Locktar on dm2 when I was young, because of his high risk, silly tactics.. I didn't know how he could use these tactics and come out still with high frag low death... it is because he was beyond learning how to play the game, those 4 things that make up the strategy, he was playing tactic games.
Griffin too, Griffin just slaughters I doubt he even has to think about tactics he probably watching Family Guy or something while hes playing.
ztndm3 owns me.
Tayste - Apr 09, 2008 - 09:06 PM
Post subject:
I believe the reason that I merit tactics the most is because I find it the hardest part to play. My mind is more at rest with other parts of gameplay for it to make a difference. I think understanding 'how to' is easier than understanding 'when to'..
I speak mostly of duels but this theory can be applied to most modes.
OG_PunisheR - Apr 09, 2008 - 10:40 PM
Post subject:
come on 1v2 is fun. Why not challenge yourself?
i agree with DrDirk. I'll say it. I agree with DrDirk, the DMQ shaft is too easy. Just like the DMQ bunny hop. Yes maybe these are true how they shoul have originally, but some of us including me played 5 years without them and Bhop was hard and only some coulddo it. Shaft was also something id say even less people were god at. The best guy at shaft was [oLD]Scourge.
that being said, I do enjoy the new bhop and the shaft is ok, but I understand where this guy DrDirk is coming from.
Milosi I will also agree with on rocket launcher. its easier in quake to juggle, and midair. I think DMC, DMC Pro, DMQ whatever mode u want to call it, the rocket has always been slightly off. Maybe it is too slow, maybe it fires to slow, who knows. I dont really think it needs improvement, but hey who knows maybe thats what is next in this game that the community is improving. Perhaps it would change a lot of gameplay.
oh and if any DMQ coders are reading this, if you ever do more DMQ stuff, will we see a Instagib mode?
milosi - Apr 09, 2008 - 10:48 PM
Post subject:
Great idea, insta is awesome. AWP would fit as the insta weapon, without zoom of course 
Tayste - Apr 09, 2008 - 11:07 PM
Post subject:
I think the rockets are just different. Not better or worse. Shaft is too easy but it is the same for everyone, so faster reactions is important.
DMQ bunny is easier, but its more effective and its like QW. it IS very effective which lets us really use our imagination.. I prefer it to DMC, and less people can bhop in DMC.. giving some players better chances and some players better challenges. I think this is a good thing.
Minidou_le_cajoline(TM) - Apr 10, 2008 - 11:30 AM
Post subject:
There were already insta and race mod coding I thought. I remember have played with oscar and some other insta on ztn there are some years. But we can't vote for it 
I don't know why.
milosi - Apr 10, 2008 - 12:10 PM
Post subject:
"Finally Milo, nothing wrong with rockets dmq/dmc.. thats either latency/network problem or your imagination running away ^^"
"I think the rockets are just different."
Tayste - Apr 10, 2008 - 01:12 PM
Post subject:
hehe.. you said they suck, and rocket is the problem... I think they just different, but nothing wrong 
I couldn't find the differences when I compare them, but someone told me they thought it was that the rocket have further to travel than in QW, or something like that. Or the other way around... =)
Either way I love rockets ^^
sQurGe-oM - Apr 10, 2008 - 02:08 PM
Post subject:
qw: rocket starts in front of player
dmc/q: rockets start behind the player
speed is exactly the same
that's what it's all about... mfrx told me that some time ago and that he tried to change the behaviour so that in dmq the rocket would start in front of the player, but when he tried it he recognised the player would kill or injure himself, even when he or she would fire straight forward...
mfrx - Apr 10, 2008 - 02:20 PM
Post subject:
Very true sQ. Something else you can change to make QW feel more like DMQ is to change the height of your eyes. I can't remember the variable name I'm afraid, but it does help.
Tayste - Apr 10, 2008 - 02:32 PM
Post subject:
wow my memory is gifted with luck ^^
well, when there are only 2 options it ain't that amazing I suppose ^^
"but someone told me they thought it was that the rocket have further to travel than in QW"
"qw: rocket starts in front of player
dmc/q: rockets start behind the player"
What I would like to bring discussion... what difference /impact does this have on the game?
And yeah, I feel like i've been shrunk in QW.. I have never played dmc with lowered eye level.. that would be really interesting! Didn't know it was possible! Edit: oh, i just realized you said you can change it in QW to make it feel like DMC... cool =)
milosi - Apr 10, 2008 - 08:26 PM
Post subject:
Ahh, my imagination is not that bad. I can imagine a directly telefrag too
sQurGe-oM - Apr 10, 2008 - 11:31 PM
Post subject:
tayste asked: what difference /impact does this have on the game?
in normal 1on1, tdm, ffa nothing important, because you can handle it very easy there, just like in qw... the only big impact/difference is in midair i think since you've got to get the feeling of a delay, which is caused of a longer way the rocket got to travel, to kill...
if that "delay" would not exist it would be quite more comparative... well, thats just my opinion...
cmd for qw for higher eye-level: v_viewheight "-6", well someone told me -6 would be quite like dmc/q and would be also the best option, dunno whether thats true, but i just believe in it ^^
Tayste - Apr 11, 2008 - 02:26 AM
Post subject:
nice ore ty mate =)
I understand what you mean about midair, my rocket aim isn't better in QW though.
DrDirk - Apr 12, 2008 - 03:05 AM
Post subject:
So who uses a jump script? I am trying to adjust to not useing one and have found i cant bunny for $h!t. Suggestions?
sQurGe-oM - Apr 12, 2008 - 12:26 PM
Post subject:
i use a jumpscript for DMC(Pro) because using the dmq-client.dll jump is a bit fucked in DMC(Pro) (but i could also delete it, since i mostly play DMQ)
and something about Shaft being to easy in dmq: it is not! you need to aim more than praying for luck (like u have to in dmc/dmc pro)
in dmc(pro) shaft is mostly useless... (well before steam times it wasnt using ex_interp... but that was also a bit cheaty command... since to much interpolation is like a semi-aimbot) since you are not able to tell where the shaft is really at, at the moment you are using it... in the end its more of a waste of batteries...
so worship the dmq-shaft! use its might! 
Tayste - Apr 12, 2008 - 03:53 PM
Post subject:
Suggestions:
play dmq.
Questions:
why play without jump script in dmc?
Thoughts of a noob :
All the script does is increase the number of frames in which you have to press jump in order to not lose your speed.. if anyone ever played fighting games like Soul Calibur will have heard of a term known as JF... (Just frame).. they are moves where the button has to be pressed within 1 frame of gameplay for it to work. (most people play with 70+ frames per second in dmc). However, even with the script, once you manage to reach a certain speed the game simply will not let you keep it, and you get a forced fail jump.. as if you stepped on glue.
It does not allow you to move faster than without using a script.. just opens the game to what should be allowed, but cannot be done because we are humans not bots.. the game allows bhop, but no one can consistently JF.. It is not unfair on other people, if you can't bunnyhop, it will not suddenly make you able to bunnyhop.. it is not a magic answer.. QW made movement more freeform too.. DMQ is awesome.
This is a good DMC jump script, 2 jumps instead of 1. It turned bhop from JF into possible.
bind "SPACE" "-jump;wait;+jump;wait;-jump;wait;+jump;wait;-jump"
This is no difficult discovery either... no big time hax like some people seem to think. About 6 months after DMC came out I was experimenting with jump binds wondering why my bunnyhop was so inconsistent.. anything you can edit in cfg is your own choise..... Solution was found.
DrDirk - Apr 12, 2008 - 09:01 PM
Post subject:
Matt Damon